Jewish Objections 1.06 You have your religion I have mine

[Sophiee]

By Drashi

Michael L. Brown


From http://www.realmessiah.com/OBJgeneralPF.htm

Objection: 1.6. “You have your religion and I have mine. Jesus is for the Gentiles, and if he helps them, great. In fact, Judaism teaches that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. But for us, the Jewish people, we have the Torah. That is our portion.”

Answer: “What an insult to the Gentiles! If Jesus did not fulfill biblical prophecy, if he is not the promised Messiah of Israel, if he was not born of a virgin, if he did not die for the sins of the world and rise from the dead, if he is not coming back as King of all kings to rule and reign here forever- then he is the Messiah and Savior of nobody. He is a false prophet and the writers of the New Testament were either deceivers or deceived. But if he did do all these things, then he is the Messiah and Savior of everyone -- both Jew and Gentile. As for the Torah, it remains our portion, but it is only through the Messiah that we can truly interpret it and live it out.”

Now it is interesting that he feels that if Jews reject Christianity, then Christianity is false, and that could never be. On the one hand he resists being called a devotee of Christ (Christian), but on the other hand he will not call himself a Christian, nor will he accept that Judaism has rejected Jesus.

However, he then tries to draw a parallel between the Lubavitcher movement and Christianity, saying that if there was a world-wide movement to sell the Rebbe as the Moshiach to the Gentiles, and there were more Gentiles than Jews who believe it, does it mean that he is not for the Jews?

There is no relationship because the key is that if the Lubavitchers taught that the Rebbe is G-d, or that one should pray to him, then obviously such a practice would be forbidden in Judaism and would be cut away as non-Jewish.

Unfortunately, Chabad, while it does good, also does leave itself open to the Missionaries since they are unwilling to establish a Yartzeit. But I do agree that there is no true comparison. It is a stretch.

Brown goes on to say that in the beginning of Christianity, all of the followers of Jesus were frum Jews. But he leaves out that the moment Jesus died and Christianity was stumbling and dying (it's hard to believe in the return of a Moshiach when better ones keep coming along), that the Jews walked away from it the moment Jesus was anything more than a man. Also, there does not seem to be any record that Torah-observant Jews from every generation have followed Jesus as Brown keeps suggesting.

Brown also doesn't like the idea that we say that other religions are fine for other people, because he states that anyone who believes in more than one G-d (he includes Hindues, tribes, etc.) is a sinner from the Noahide point of view (actually they are not, but he sort of skims over that), and then adds hisChristian bent that since much of the world is sinful, then how can we say that those other religions are righteous without the "Hebrew Bible" as he calls it, as a guide.

He uses a weird analogy, which can be summarized as "Thanks for nothing!" when the Jews say, "Your religion is fine for the non-Jews, but not us". And then he sneaks in Isaiah 53:6 as a footnote to say that Jesus is for "ALL OF US", based on "kullanu" being used twice. Of course, Isaiah 53:1 also says that the world would realize their error and turn away from sin, but so long as Jesus can "fulfill" two words in one verse is enough for him.

He then says that G-d loved us to send Jesus to save us:

How? By living a perfect life, showing us the way to God by his deeds and words, and then dying in our place as the ransom that paid the debt we could never pay.

...and through Jesus, we can all become children of the living God, Jew and Gentile alike...Who could object to that?

So in summation, this particular chapter is beating on the idea that it is insulting to Christians everywhere to say that Jesus is for them, while to the Jew it is a sinful practice. To say "It is ok for you to sin, but leave us alone" is disingenuous and is a lack of integrity. (my words, not his). Therefore we need to be consistant.

Hmmm...

Comments........................................

[Sophiee]

Quote Dr. Brown:

“What an insult to the Gentiles! If J-sus did not fulfill biblical prophecy, if he is not the promised Messiah of Israel, if he was not born of a virgin, if he did not die for the sins of the world and rise from the dead, if he is not coming back as King of all kings to rule and reign here forever- then he is the Messiah and Savior of nobody. He is a false prophet and the writers of the New Testament were either deceivers or deceived.

It is interesting that Dr. Brown even quotes the Jews as saying to the Xians "fine, you believe what you want just leave us alone"

AND THAT ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR DR. BROWN.

Somehow Jews being Jews is an insult to the Gentiles????????????

And Dr. Brown, the apostate, doesn't see this statement of his as both arrogant and insulting to the Jews????

But, I agree with him in one respect. J-sus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies and he is a savior of nobody.

But Dr. Brown goes on to say:

But if he did do all these things, then he is the Messiah and Savior of everyone -- both Jew and Gentile.

If he did all What things? J-sus was not an anointed king or priest (so he wasn't a messiah). There is no prophecy of a virgin birth. He couldn't have died for the sins of future generations (and he wasn't a tzedek so his death couldn't have atoned for anyone any way).

And where is it written that hte messiah will be a "savior" -- especially with a capital "s"? Hasn't Dr. Brown read Isaiah?

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the L-RD, and apart from me there is no savior.

Then Dr. Brown says:

As for the Torah, it remains our portion, but it is only through the Messiah that we can truly interpret it and live it out.”

Even the GT disagrees with him on this one. It isn't the messiah who interprets Torah but the Rabbis -- who sit in Moses' seat. J-sus says:

Matthew 23:1 Then J-sus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the P harisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you.

Dr. Brown was born a Jew (although he is now an apostate). So as a Jew the Torah was given to him, but it was not given to non-Jews (the majority of his followers). So if Brown means the Torah is the portion of the Xians he is dead wrong.

G-d loves all nations, but He gave Torah to Israel -- not to Xians.

Deuteronomy 33:3 Although there is love for nations, all Your holy ones are in Your hand. They follow Your footsteps, and uphold Your word. 33:4 Moses prescribed the Torah to us, an eternal heritage for the congregation of Jacob.

[Sophiee]

AntiMissionary noted that Sophiee said:

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the L-RD, and apart from me there is no savior.

This is where we get into the nonsense of the Trinity though. The Christian is going to say "RIGHT! and g-d sent his son part of him to save everyone".

To which Drashi replied:

That's when we would apologize for their misunderstanding of the translation!

אנוכי - I (typically implies "I alone" or "I uniquely") am...
יי - HaShem ...
ואין - and there is/has-not-been no one, no thing, etc....
מבלעדי - except (indicates exclusiveness, a sole mastery or ownership and is a midifier to the subject)...
מושיע - saviour.

Or, better rendered, "I alone am HaShem, and except for Me alone, there is/has-not-been no savior [but Me]."

And the context is that HaShem is telling that the Jews defeated their enemies, not because of any one person, but because of Him alone.